Discussions about remastering.

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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:18 pm

Removing needed codecs from Zen-mini, defeats it's purpose. Gstreamer plug-ins are a bad place to start cutting, Synaptic will not always include them as needed dependencies for some media players, leaving the user to fumble around trying to figure it out.

Gpicview, is the perfect lightweight picture viewer, if you include a program to view pics at all on a minimal iso, this is the one to use. It's half the size of viewnior, which is not bad program either, but if i wanted extra options, i would move up to maybe gthumb.
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby melodie » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:32 pm

Hi Dragynn,

Have you had a glance at the post I wrote yesterday here ?

gpicview will not be continued, said pcman.

Else, if you remove ssh-server you could as well remove ssh-client too. You can't use one without the other. :(

I have finished remastering Siamer's last Zen, it's 348MB now. I didn't test it yet, will install it to it's former partition, tomorrow, before switching it to French. In the meanwhile I have uploaded it an can make it available, if someone is interested to get it.

Regards,
mélodie

PS: to get all necessary codecs, there are 2/3 possible fast solutions, I think : install VLC, or install smplayer or gmplayer. And look into Synaptic for gstreamer packages, of course.
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:14 am

What do you mean gpicview won't be continued? what is there to continue? the program is complete, works fine. Just because software isn't in constant development, doesn't mean it magickally stops working completely, who is pcman?

Smplayer- way too many QT depends. Clementine-same deal. We've been trying to stick to GTK apps here as befits gnome systems, also trying to stay off the Mono cr*p too.

And further re: codecs, I know for a fact that several media programs do not come with all necessary plug-ins, you remember us speaking about how Clementine was not assigned either gstreamer-soup or neon and so couldn't play internet radio? Several more like that in the repo....I reported on all this to Siamer after Zen 2010.10 came out after testing very very thoroughly, he fine tuned and added a couple of gstreamer packages specifically to target these issues, this is why gstreamer-plugins-neon is included on the 2011 iso.

The gstreamer packages are not that large at all Mel, and I was under the assumption, that Zen-mini was intended to supply all the infrastructure, while leaving choice of programs to the user. Supplying all the necessary infrastructure, makes it easy on even the novice user, to craft their own "perfect" system.

I have a 348 mb iso too, yet it contains all those codecs, plus a media player and a music player and more.

I agree about SSH, would like to dump it all, but Synaptic won't let me dump the client without removing a bunch of necessary packages.

Just opinions of course.

The ultimate custom hack, would be to figure out how to write a script, that would remove all unnecessary driver packages from the system, X-11, and the kernel, once hardware detection/installation was complete, you could probably remaster a sub-200 mb iso after that.

The other big area, is translations, all the gnome code is ate up with them.

Just turned another windoze user this weekend, my neighbor got BSOD'ed hardcore with complete failure to re-boot at all and was panicking. I used a livecd to rescue some of his files, then showed him how to open a pair of nautilus windows to drag and drop other files he wanted to save and left him with it to play around, he had already installed Zen by the next day to his hard-drive, and was no longer interested in windoze :wink: :D :D


Feel free to comment/discuss, i'm not putting any constraints on my thread regarding criticism :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:55 am

In the category of "you learn something new every day", today I learned that "genbasedir" is not a part of pkgutils, and so pkgutils is not necessary to create a local repo. :wink:

Also found "diffutils" which was already installed, lotsa groovy hidden CLI apps in Zen, this one looks very useful :D
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:04 am

Ya know, I just gotta say, Gpicview is the perfect picture viewer, lightest weight, platform independent, uses pure gtk, low resource usage, everything you need and nothing you don't. It ought to be considered a utility, and included as part of the basic system on any given distro.
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby melodie » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:58 pm

Dragynn wrote:Ya know, I just gotta say, Gpicview is the perfect picture viewer, lightest weight, platform independent, uses pure gtk, low resource usage, everything you need and nothing you don't. It ought to be considered a utility, and included as part of the basic system on any given distro.


Dragynn,

I invite you to subscribe to the Lxde i18n mailing list, then answer to PCMan, the original author of this program. His first post about it can be found here:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/foru ... =lxde-i18n

Hi everyone,
As the original author and prior maintainer of GPicView, I'd like to ask for
some comments from users and other developers. Since I no longer have the
time to maintain GPicView and it still has many problems. I consider
dropping GPicView in LXDE and replace it with a better one.

Viewnior is a lightweight and feature-rich image viewer which I think is
better than gpicview and it also meets the goals of LXDE.
http://xsisqox.github.com/Viewnior/

It has very good balance between resource usage and feature set. Please give
it some tests and gave me some feedback.
I'd suggest replacing GPicView with Viewnior in LXDE. Any objections?


Up to now, nobody objected. Please take note that pcman also has a life, is theses days going through very important exams for his career as a Doctor in medicine, and is already providing a wonderful set of programs to the community. Unless you have some means to fork gpicview, have developer ability or friend developers willing to take it and continue it under another name, I don't quite know a solution.

I wouldn't advise to keep it too long from now on, under these conditions.

Sorry...
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:24 pm

melodie wrote:
I wouldn't advise to keep it too long from now on, under these conditions.

Sorry...


What conditions might that be Melodie? The program works like a charm, no flaws or errors in over a year of usage on all of my machines, is it going to spontaneously combust if someone doesn't continue to add code to it? :lol: :lol:

I don't replace parts on anything that doesn't have something broken, and I don't buy into the idea that any program not currently maintained must be inherently flawed. That is just silly, throwing away perfectly good code. If someone wants to replace it with Viewnior, well good for them, but i'm happy with it, so it stays on my re-masters.
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby melodie » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:00 am

Dragynn,

What exactly does Gpicview have that is missing in Viewnior ?
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:10 am

melodie wrote:Dragynn,

What exactly does Gpicview have that is missing in Viewnior ?


My approval. :wink: :mrgreen:

The only thing Viewnior does that Gpicview doesn't, is crop. At that point, it stopped being a picture viewer and became a one-trick-pony of an image-manipulation tool, there are better programs available for that task, what I want is a picture viewer, pure and simple. Gpicview is perfect for that task, and half the size of Viewnior, I can't abide bloat in simple utilities like a picture viewer.

Isn't linux great? Choice is awesome :D :D I still run the older xorg on most of my machine's partitions, lighter weight, works better. Also still running a machine with 2.6.33.7 kernel since they couldn't figure out to use a simple instruction to fix a regression in the 2.6.38 kernels that destroyed sound on a lot of machines. I usually make second copies of all my iso's with the older kernel.

So you see, if I placed all my faith in devs and mailing-list-testers and what they collectively think is best for me...... my best, fastest, newest machine, would be a brick without sound right now. That's right, NO version of 2011 PCLOS is capable of producing sound on that machine (linux mint works just fine though on it). This is why I decided to learn more, and make my own iso's, and that is what this thread, and indeed this whole section of the forum is about...people making their own OS/program decisions, a much much better mousetrap.

If you really hate Gpicview, probably all you have to do, is point a certain snarky head dev to this thread, and he'll pull it from the repo like a fat kid taking his football and going home :lol: :lol: :lol: (this is why I have a private local repo).
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:01 am

Speaking of redundancy :wink: , I noticed you included Radiotray and Deadbeef in the new Openbox iso, Deadbeef now supports m3u and .pls playlists, so Radiotray seems a little unnecessary.

But kudos for cramming a whole lotta stuff into under 700 mb :wink: :D
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby slax » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:59 am

You could try mirage. it's awesome app
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:30 pm

slax wrote:You could try mirage. it's awesome app


Again, twice the size of gpicview with nothing extra in the way of features really.

It's all in what you want the program to do, my re-masters are focused on a small tight group of apps to just cover all the basic bases. I don't mind a larger program if it's necessary and/or the app is just such a stand-out that it's worth the extra space.

But Gpicview is still the smallest, fastest basic viewer by far.
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby melodie » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:15 am

Dragynn wrote:But Gpicview is still the smallest, fastest basic viewer by far.


Hi,
Please see my post at the ml here. You can also read the whole thread starting from here. If you want, you could subscribe to that list. There are not too many mails, just a few once a while.

Regards,
Mélodie
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby Dragynn » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:16 pm

Please don't copypasta my posts to other forums.

I don't subscribe to mailing lists.

thanks.
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Re: Building a new Zen 2011.7 re-master.

Postby melodie » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:37 pm

Dragynn wrote:Please don't copypasta my posts to other forums.

I don't subscribe to mailing lists.

thanks.


I just thought that your opinion could interest the people in charge. I didn't see any harm there.
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